Ellesmere Port Part 2

Extracts of Spirit Communication at Second Public Demonstration of Trance Mediumship at Ellesmere Port - Part 2

Following Hai's discussion with the audience WB came through. He is a permanent member of the Spirit Group who work with us and was a scientist in his last incarnation.

WB talked a little about the circumstances of his last life. He then went on to discuss a wide range of issues raised by members of the audience including: the conspiracy theory that American astronauts had never landed on the moon, alien life forms on other planets, the possibility of science proving the existence of the afterlife, predicting the future, spiritual development, capital punishment, bringing up children, soul mates, the nature of hell. Perhaps the most difficult test of our love was WB's assertion that we should find love in our hearts even for murderers and paedophiles.

WB: I am most pleased to make your aquaintance tonight. I shall hope that you will reciprocate this please, my friends. I am most gratified to hear it. Otherwise I should have been in some doubt as to whether I should have been able to stay. You wish me to stay? Yes? Very well I shall oblige, yes. Well you wish to talk to me?

Q: When did you live?

WB: I lived in your 1800s.

Q: In Britain?

WB: Yes, British through and through. I was used to driving around in a carriage with beautiful grey horses.

Nancy: What were your horses names?

WB: Dobbin and Bobbin.

Nancy: A very fortunate man.

WB: I was indeed, but I could not count my blessings in other ways.

Nancy: Why was that?

WB: Well, well my dear friend, I was somewhat distracted with my profession. Somewhat distracted with my work. Yes, I lacked female company. I lacked the joy of human contact. Not totally you understand, but I lacked the closeness of regular human contact.Yes.

Nancy: What sort of work did you do?

WB: I was something of a scientist in the field of electronics.

Q: WB, was that your profession?

WB: I was something of a researcher in a university, in my chosen field.

Q: Did you ever visualise the progress that has been made now?

WB: Oh yes, I could forsee some of the progress which was likely to come about, but I did not forsee everything by any means. Changes which have come about in your physical world have been astounding, even for one like me, who had an eye for the future and some indication of what would come to pass, yes.

Q: Did you take an interest in the space exploration programme?

WB: Well not in my time period of course. But from my standpoint here, yes.

Q: There is a conspiracy theory about whether the Americans did actually land on the moon in the 1960s.

WB: And they did indeed.

Q: Do you know what happened?

WB: They did indeed land on the moon. I was there. (Laughter). Yes, we must give people credit for their achievements, yes.

Q: Some are saying it never happened.

WB: Why do people say this? Why would people want to say this? to what purpose? To what end?

Q: To discredit them.

WB: Well this is foolish talk. This is foolish talk. Why would people wish to do this? (Silence). I could answer this question for you, but I hoped that you would answer it for me.

Q: It's a hard one.

WB: Ah, is it so hard? It is human nature my friend and human nature is full of jealousies, is it not? Full of jealousies, full of envy, full of "Why did I not do that? Why should I have not done that rather than this other person who has beaten me to it?"

Q: Perhaps to create a mischief.

WB: Yes, simple rivalry at times explains these things, yes.

Q: But we can't always believe what we hear can we?

WB: No and I would be the first to advise you of that my friend. I would advise you to question everything. Yes, I would definitely advise you to contest everything, yes.

Q: You said you were there when they landed. Were you there for any other purpose than to witness it?

WB: I was there my friend. I would not have missed that event for my life. Ha! I just wished to witness it. To see it. To be clear about it. To experience it. I could have, of course, I could have looked on it from afar. There is no need in our realm to be stood next to you, to be stood close, but there was an opportunity to stand up closer so why not? Yes.

Q: Did you just want to be there or to stand on the moon before they did?

WB: No, No, I could not enter the competion with not having a physical form. Anyone can visit the moon with their spiritual form. I could not lay claim to compete with them. But I merely wished to be there, like your mountaineers say they wish to climb their mountains, to be there. Yes, I just wished to be there.

Q: Do you think there is life in outer space?

WB: There is life in outer space my friend. I do not have to believe it. I do not have to doubt it. I know it as a fact.

Q: Not spiritual life, physical form?

WB: Oh yes. You create a conumdrum for me. For all is spiritual life. You are all spiritual life.

Q: But we consider ourselves to be physical.

WB: Yes, you are physical, but you are spiritual also and therefore all life is spiritual ultimately, in it's ultimate sense. But yes, there is physical life in outer space, if you wish me to say it in that way. There is physical spiritual life in outer space.

Q: And what religious realm are these people on?

WB: Religious realm? religious realm sir? I am not with you.

Q: Is the life animal or ..

WB: Animal vegetable or mineral? (Laughter). It is all these things. There is life on these other planets in the far reaches of your galaxy.

Q: Do you think we will ever contact them?

WB: You will contact them, but it may not be for some time yet.

Nancy: Have they visited us?

WB: They do visit you. They peer in from their space travelling ships, yes. They are evolved beings on the whole, but you should not consider them evolved in all aspects, in all respects and I would counsel you to ask your questions, as the good lady stated earlier.

Carol: Will we ever have proof of a spirit world and will there be a machine that can prove it?

WB: Yes, as your sciences evolve, as your sciences develop, you will find that the worlds, the gap between the worlds, the apparent barrier between the worlds, will start to fall away more. But until such time as this occurs your proof will be personal to you. For you, each in your way, in your own different way, in your turn, will receive some evidence of the continuance of life beyond the grave. You will feel, you will see, you will sense, some evidence of the continuation of life in your loved ones. But this is personal to you is it not? It would be difficult to reach a point in time where all may say in unison: "Ah, this is evidence, this is proof of the afterlife." For it is not in the nature of the thing that this can occur easily. But in time your sciences will progress and advance and you will find that the barriers will start to ebb and fall away.

Tracy: My family, who have passed, often tell me things in my dreams which later come true.

WB: Yes, yes. As we have said before, we can see the pattern, can see the flow in the river and, in small measure, we may sometimes be able to say: "This will come to pass, that will come to pass". But we are not keen to divulge this on a regular basis, for we feel there are inherent dangers in this; that you as human beings may feel, may find, may believe, that the pattern is written for you, that it cannot be changed, that it will not change. But you can affect the flow, affect the direction your life will take. You can affect the flow of the waters through your choices, free will. For, if this was not the case, what would be the point of you being here, if all was determined from the moment of birth? There would be no point whatsover. .

Q: Did you come from a well healed family as they call it?

WB: Well healed and well horsed. I was priveleged. I was fortunate my dear lady. Undoubtebly I was blessed with good heals as you say. Yes, I had opportunities.

Q: I visualise you as a dapper little man.

WB: Not too little please, my dear lady, not too little. (Laughter).

Q: Did you develop anything yourself?

WB: Yes, I invented a contraption which was able to use the magnetic currents in order to facilitate some rudimentary communication.

Q: Like the telephone?

WB: Not quite like the telephone, but along those lines, yes.

Q: Which town were you born in?

WB: I was born in England, but I was living in Edinburgh.

Q: Did you know any well known scientists?

WB: Yes Rawlings was one of my compatriotes, one of my collegues, Rawlings. Time dims.

Nancy: Are you aware of Dr Kilner, the scientist of the 18th century who invented the Kilner screen?

WB: Yes, yes.

Nancy: You can actually see spirits on it. Do you know why it wasn't developed further?

WB: It is not so much that the Kilner screen clearly displays spirit as such Nancy, but it displays, connects with, aspects of the spiritual energies, yes, spiritual bodies.

Nancy: As a scientist, did you believe in an after life?

WB: Ah no, no. I was not either for it or against it. I reserved judgement.

Nancy: So were you very surprised when you passed over?

WB: I was pleasantly surprised, pleasantly surprised. I can thoroughly recommend it.

Q: You said that you never had a relationship when you were living. Have you met someone now?

WB: I have. I have met my dear Sylvia.

Q: Are you happy?

WB: I am very happy. Thank you for asking. I am most happy. A deficiency has been remidied, rectified.

Q: Did you know her on earth?

WB: No, she took pity on me when she met me on the other side of this no divide. Ha! She took pity upon me. Took me under her wing I believe you might say, yes, a generous wing, yes. I am most fortunate, most fortunate to have found, to have experienced this love between us.

Q: Is she your soul mate?

WB: No, no. I wouldn't say to you that. This idea, symbolism, of soul mate is not particularly useful. In a sense we are all soul mates, one of each other. There is a connectedness, a beautiful connectedness, a beautiful loving harmony, unison, between us all. Therefore to talk of soul mates indicates a special closeness with one soul and indeed we do need special closeness with one or more souls. But I would not overstate if you would understand me? I would not overstate it.

Q: Will you be incarnated on the earth again?

WB: I hope some time will pass before that eventuality becomes necessary.

Q: Have you been able to see your past lives?

WB: Yes, yes, in the fullness of time. The present complaint of which I speak soon became apparent to me. Indeed I was aware of it within myself while on the earth plane, but you know how it is, you put things to one side, you bury them, you pretend they are not there. But I was unable to maintain that pretence when greeted by a wise soul on my demise, yes. They ask all the wrong questions you see.

Q: Does that happen to everybody?

WB: What, get asked all the wrong questions?

Q: Yes?

WB: All the wrong questions from your point of view for a comfortable life. All the right questions from their point of view for an evolved life.

Q: So it is work on the journey?

WB: It is work on the journey my dear friend. It is work on the journe, but it is pleasant work, if you put your hand to the wheel willingly.

Q: And are you given the equipment to do it?

WB: Yes you already have the equipment to do it my dear lady. Sometimes it is the willingness to do it that is the problem. The willingness to look upon ourselves, upon our development, upon our shortcomings, upon our failiers, upon our potential. For even looking upon our potential can cause us some pain sometimes, for we do not always wish to uncover our potential. For it means work, it means change, it means moving our of the familiar, out of the rut. But if we would grow and evolve we must move out of the familiar.

Q: So, even though people don't like change in life, they don't like change after death either?

WB: No, no. You should not put too big a diffference between your present circumstances and circumstances in spirit. Undoubtedly the realm in which I am priveleged to live has many compensations, has many beauties, is a beautiful place, beautiful existence. But it does not obviate the necessity for work, for growth, for development. But is work so bad, my dear lady, if it is pleasant work, if you can see fruit. The difficultly is on the earth plane, that sometimes you do not see fruit of your work. You do not see the produce from your work. For there is an unfair system perhaps, sometimes. The system, the unfair system, prevents you from seeing the full fruit of your labour. But you may rest assured that, if you put your shoulder to the wheel you will see, in the spirit land, the full fruits of your labour. So you may take some recompence in this, my dear lady, even if the work seems somewhat disagreable from your present standpoint.

Q: So you no longer work to the exclusion of other things like you did on earth?

WB: To the exclusion of other things. You are aware that, as you work upon your own development, upon your own path, that your path connects with the path of others, connects with the path of the communal soul and therefore there is no selfishness in this. The progress of the one is the progress of the many and equally the progress of the many is the progress of the one and therefore all paths are conneceted. All mutually are helpful to each other.

Q: What can society do then, especially for our children, to stop them from going wrong?

WB: The answer my friend is simplicity itself. I would not be telling you anything you do not already know. For you must, you know, if you ask a question of yourself, you know the answer. When do you feel well? When do you feel all is right with the world? When do you feel complete, fullfilled? When you can answer these questions you have your answer as to how you should treat and care for and nurture the small ones of this planet. For we all wish to be cherished do we not? We all wish to be loved, to be nurtured, valued, to be respected. To have room to grow, to feel the air in our branches. To evolve in our own individuality as the individual beings we are. These are all things which we would seek, are they not? And therefore, if we value the small ones of this earth as we value each other, this will lead us along the correct path. It is a path which is as old as humanity itself, but the problem is we will not tread the path. But if we could only tread the path all would be achieved.

Q: Do you think there ever will be like they say in the bible, "a heaven on earth", the way things are now?

WB: Heaven on earth? Well, we can bring about heavenly conditions on earth in so far as we can affect the conditions of the earth. But yet you already, in many respects, have your heaven on earth. For you have on your earthly life, on your earthly journey, the means to attain a saintly life, the means to develop to a heavenly life. You may think I am talking in riddles. But I tell you, for our spiritual development we need certain experiences. We need certain conditions, certain challenges, in order that we might grow and if our earthly existence was too comfortable, too easy, too pampering of us, this would not be conducive to becoming the loving beings which we must become, which is our destiny. If I was to say to you that within your own family, within your own home you would have a sanctuary, a sanctuary of bliss, a sanctuary protected from all the outer elements, from all the challenges, from all the outer entanglements and within your family you could love each other to the full. But would there be great merit in this my friends. Would there be great merit in this or would there rather be more merit if we have to give our lives in the outer world, in the outer entanglements, through the difficulties of life, through the repressions, through the torments, through the illnessess. Is it not the case that the love we demonstrate, which we show to each other in these latter conditions is of more merit, is of more solid foundation than in the former case, where we are closeted in safety and comfort and security. Is this not so my friends?

Q: Do you get the same conditions in the spirit plane? Do you have trials and tribulations there?

WB: No, not in your way. Not in the ways of your world. But we do have trials and tribulations. For we have only to look in your direction for some trials and tribulations, because we are called upon, we are called upon to work with you, to assist you, to be your partners in your development, in the development of your world.

Q: We were talking about the nurturing of children and their environments and all the time I was thinking about the parents of the two children who were murdered recently and I couldn't help thinking that I'm sorry, but if I was one of them I wouldn't be thinking like that at the moment. Now people are responding to that by having their children microchiped and tagged. Is that the way society needs to go or should we be microchipping the paedophiles? What should society be doing?

WB: No, no, no,no. I fear, my lady, and regret that we must walk the hard path with this one and issues such as this. We must walk the hard path. We cannot control everyone. We cannot control everyone every minute of every day. Nor is this desirable. There is a far off planet in your galaxy. Far, far, where there is no murder, where there is no theft, where there is no physical harm done by one towards the other. It is a place of merit my friends. I have the advantage on you, of course, for I know the conditions on this planet. But it is not a situation of merit my friends. For on this planet, the species on this planet has built in such methods of control of its population, of its species, that there is not the opportunity, there is no opportunity to inflict harm one on the other. The systems of monitoring are so sophisticated that the control would come in for anyone who had opportunity to inflict harm. But what manner of being would such a planet breed my friends?

Q: Are you saying control takes away free will?

WB: Control does indeed take away free will and it breeds something else.

Q: Rebellion?

WB: It breeds something else. It does not breed evolvement. It does not breed advancement. It does not breed spiritual progress.

Q: Do you believe society has moved on from your era? For instance, we no longer have capital punishment?

WB: I was going to say it moves on faster having parted with my horses, but it has moved on in some directions. You are quite right, capital punishment was an abomination, an abomination. And therefore it has moved on in some ways, but it has not moved on in some other ways, has it not?

Q: Do you belive in it?

WB: I do not belive in capital punishment. I cannot find a stonger word to indicate my opinion of it, rather than "abomination". It is not conducive. It is not conducive to the all embracing principle of Universal Love. My friends you must remember, you must remember, you are a candle in time, a candle in time and you have been many candles through many times. It is as if as one candle burns out the flame is passed onto another candle, another incarnational being. If you could look back on your past lives, my friends, there would be many things that you would not be pleased about, as for me also. Therefore, I know it is hard, but you should take the longer view, the eternal view, because we are all on an eternal journey. And those people who you point to now, who have inflicted great harm, great damage, great sacrilige upon your body, upon those little ones, yet we must look at the path through the eternity of time. You are all loved my friends, you are all loved with an inexplicable Love, a Love beyond all understanding. We are all Loved with a Love beyond all understanding. A Love that ever waits for us, whichever looks to us, whichever beckons us, regardless of our faults, regardless of our shortcomings. Therefore we must try to appreciate the strength and beauty of this Love.

Q: Why would God love murderers or paedophiles when they have commited sins like that? Why would there be Unconditional Love for them?

WB: Because they have gone astray. They have greatly gone astray. But if you had a son, a daughter, who had greatly gone astray, would you ever give up all your love of them?

Q: I don't know the answer to that one. Are you saying then, that the Love is available and that we choose either to go to that Love or to go astray and do things that would be contrary to loving others?

WB: In so far as we do not love. In so far as we attach ourselves to selfishness. In so far as we cast others away from us, then of course we fail. We fail to take to our hearts that Universal Love. But in the fullness of time we may repent, we may change, we may undergo transformation and become embraced by that Love once more.

Q: So we can't have heaven without hell? Who walks in hell?

WB: There is no hell but of our own creating my friend. We create our hell by our state of mind which we nurture and build within ourselves. There are those who walk what you would call hell. But they walk hell because they have put themselves off in their selfishness, in their looking within.

Q: Are they lost souls?

WB: None are lost my friend. None are lost. There are those of us who work in the deepest regions of what you would call hell, to entice, to enchant, to draw back those souls whom you would term lost. And once one of those souls turns towards us in our direction the beginning of the end is brought about and the long slow journey home begins.

Q: Can you define for me an evil spirit?

WB: An evil spirit. An evil spirit is one that momentarilly has embraced evil. But in the essence no spirit is evil in its self nature. For in its self nature it is at one with the God Head, the One Mind.

Q: Here on earth we often seem so ineffectual in dealing with drugs, crime, etc. How do you see the power of prayer?

WB: Prayer, the power of prayer, is great beyond measure, beyond your understanding, beyond your hopes and expectations. If you would join in prayer it creates an energy, energy which blends together, mends together, which unifies together with the prayers of all, through all the worlds; which brings about the potential, the great potential, the possibility of change. Therefore I would encourage you in your prayer my dear one, encourage you in your prayer.

Q: Eileen told WB it was time to finish and thanked him for coming.

WB: Well, I am most gratified, most pleased you have put up with my ramblings. I thank you. I was prone to ramblings in my earthly life. They have found some use for the mannerism for their own purposes. You see how all might be transmuted to good, you see? I will leave you then my dear ones, my dear friends. I thank you once again for your attention. I would leave you, I would leave you with this thought: That we are indeed all together in one great community. Those of you who are still walking the earth and those of us who are walking the spirit planes, we are all of one great commumity, a great community of love. And I convey the love of all of us to you and I hope you will reciprocate with your love towards us. I wish you a pleasant evening my friends, a good night's rest. Goodbye.